And the phrase that everything happens for a reason is almost absolutely tied to god, fate, or some sort of plan.
It assumes that whatever tragedy or negative occurence has taken place, that it’s for some higher reason, or greater good…when that’s just not the case, no matter how many “exceptions” to this rule are brought up. We can find any connections in something if we look long enough.

You are also using your own selective logic to explain this mysterious “plan”.

Why are your family, gender and sex tied into this crazy plan but not when your relationships end? Because if what family you’re born into is supposedly decided, as you mentioned, doesn’t dating and relationships directly influence that? the family you’re born into is dependent on your parents meeting which would have to be part of the plan. Its either everything is decided and we’re on rails or nothing is decided and we have autonomous thought.

though I don’t believe either of the above is accurate, if you’re religious, those are your choices. The reason that its impossible
to stick with one or the other is that religious dogma needs BOTH to sustain itself.

And this is what I mean, just an inconsistency in logic. But to be fair “P”, yours is still better than most.

The bible is not meant to be read literally, but to be interrupted. I think it uses ‘master plan’ (if it uses it at all) loosely. I personally don’t think God has mapped out your entire life because, as I said before, you have choices. Perhaps he knows where it will lead based on those choices, as if he’s psychic or something *wink*. Just because a psychic knows the path your life will take, doesn’t mean they are responsible for how you get there.
I personally think the grand plan is much bigger then all of us. I don’t think it has a lot to do with each of our individual lives, and for the twits reading so much into it, well, they’re dumb.

I’ve often used that phrase, “everything happens for a reason,” but I think we use it to comfort ourselves. I’m sure the phrase sometimes lends itself as a scapegoat, but that’s pretty dumb when you think about it. The phrase itself isn’t necessarily tied to God, but I’m sure it’s where it derived from.

There are religious fanatics that are using this sort of “logic” as the main source of how they make decisions – that is why they are called fanatics. And, I’m sure there are those who wouldn’t be classified as fanatics that are using some of it too. In the end, everyone will do what is right for them, even if we think it’s dumb.

You say, “…he’s not at fault for all the shitty things that happen in life.” and, “…he gave us the ability to make choices.” The latter being a much larger discussion on the existence of autonomous thought and free will. But these two statements, which most Christians would agree with you on, are in direct conflict ideologically with other dominate religious beliefs.

Such as the fact, that God has a master plan that he has set out for all of us and that God is all knowing and all powerful. So with that being said, God not only knows about all of the terrible things that happen in the world, he specifically planned for it. And for those of us with any reality based knowledge of how the world functions…that’s messed up.

Now anytime this conversation arises, I find that religious people often jump haphazardly between the “master plan” view and the “free will” view almost at will in any attempt to defend their belief. Sure, they call themselves “believers” but I just wish they wouldn’t select their beliefs on the basis of whatever discussion they are having at the moment.

I hate to do this, but as always, the best example that comes to mind is from George Carlin (allow me to paraphrase) “What’s the point of god having this big grand master plan that is laid out for us, if any shmuck with a $2 prayer book can throw up a prayer for something and mess it up?” They are two views in complete opposition of one another. As is the basis of most religious discussion.

not to belabor(spl?) the point even more so, but I guess it goes back to the rosy belief that everything happens for a reason. This magical reason that will one day cure all. This point of view alone has given many people (myself included at one time) a total scapegoat from having to actually think about, and learn from the experience.

I also agree that for some people god is just a part of their faith and if it helps someone makes sense of things and get through life easier, I am all for it.

However, it’s this sort of logic and pattern of thinking that is harmful to the way they make decisions in the rest of their lives.

I can’t even count the times that I’ve blamed things on God. Why? Because it was easier. Throughout my life, there were times when I wasn’t prepared to hold myself accountable (at the time) for the decisions I made. I also wasn’t interested in blaming anyone else, so I just threw the blame onto him. I think it happens a lot more often than you think, but obviously people can’t do this publicly – how could you ever? How ridiculous would we look?

On the flip side, we also have to acknowledge that God is just a part of a person’s faith. If it helps people get through life, why would they want to hold him accountable? People don’t hold others who are a part of their lives accountable, even when they have done horrible things, so why would God be any different?

I haven’t had a good relationship with God for a very long time, but I’ve come to the conclusion that he’s not at fault for all the shitty things that happen in life. I’ve used him as a scapegoat for too long.

And, as you said, it’s important to fail. ‘God’ agrees, as it said that he gave us the ability to make choices. Having that ability means we must deal with the consequences of those choices. This doesn’t mean he should be blamed, that means we just have to make better choices by learning from our failures. (* Side note: I do think we have a consumer attitude towards experience as we’re expected to turn even the most unfathomable losses into an opportunity for personal growth.*)

As for things out of our control, that is the cycle of life and people understand that (or should). We always want to blame someone so we can better understand. Well, get over it, everyone!